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Science Fiction Becoming Science Fact

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David
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Re: Science Fiction Becoming Science Fact

Unread postby David » Wed Mar 19, 2014 4:37 pm

I agree with Dale, the threat of fire doesn't stop our use of gasoline or rocket/jet fuel, despite the amount of deaths caused by either. We barbecue with gas, something that can create a devastating explosion without a second thought.

I think there is a programmed fear of hydrogen from when we were in grade school, learning about the Hindenburg and how dangerous it is, yet we use other combustibles in all our vehicles be them ground or air. We are programmed to fear it more than other combustibles, despite the fact we have come a long way in safety from back then.



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ArgyrosfeniX
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Re: Science Fiction Becoming Science Fact

Unread postby ArgyrosfeniX » Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:18 am

I agree with you to some extent David, but the main difficulty isn't preventing it from exploding when it's in a controlled system. It is keeping it in the controlled system to keep it safe that is the problem. I read a story about how a rocket was being readied for launch and some of the hydrogen had leaked into the sheath around the tube supplying the rocket and the static electric charge from the moving liquid hydrogen in the tube was enough to cause combustion and destroyed the rocket...

It is the smallest atomic particle and has the ability to sneak through other molecules - through the smallest holes and doesn't require much to ignite. Overall, something that anyone would need to be cautious of.



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Re: Science Fiction Becoming Science Fact

Unread postby David » Thu Mar 20, 2014 2:42 pm

Well, I would hope we wouldn't use rockets...

The engines would be below, if hydrogen escapes it will rise, not fall to whatever engine is in use.

I am not discounting the danger, just saying its a lot more manageable then a rocket...

We could use halon systems and emergency cut offs if for some reason the engine caught fire. We could also encase the engine in its own compartment, below where any leaking hydrogen won't reach easily.

We could use sensors that cut off the engine if all the above fails. Lastly less than half the the people died on the Hindenburg when it exploded and went down, which had a smoking section. That means despite the "danger" it was still safer then a jet airplane crash where there is usually a 100% mortality rate. Airplanes are much more dangerous statistically and using common sense, yet we have a pretty good safety record with those.

That said, dirigibles are probably to slow to really catch on for people who want fast travel. It would probably be used more for shipping/freight.



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daniel1948
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Re: Science Fiction Becoming Science Fact

Unread postby daniel1948 » Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:41 pm

A few comments:

Dirigibles have been around for a long time and are extremely safe and efficient. This is not "science fiction becoming science fact," it is merely a very positive evolution of an existing technology.

I do not believe the claim of 100 mph. Airships have very large surface area, therefore massive drag. To propel one of these at 100 mph would require so much energy it would be impractical.

The fire that destroyed the Hindenburg was not the hydrogen burning. It was the skin of the airship burning. The skin was a lightweight fabric made airtight by a doping compound which was highly flammable, and was ignited by the spark. The people who died in the tragedy were those who panicked and jumped to their deaths. Those who remained on board were mostly unharmed as the gondola settled slowly to the ground as the hydrogen escaped.

Mixing nitrogen (or any other gas other than helium) with the hydrogen will do no good. It will just make the gas heavier and therefore less buoyant. Helium and hydrogen are the only gasses that will work. Hydrogen is not free or 'easy" to produce. It requires energy to drive electrolysis (the separation of hydrogen from oxygen of the water molecule). But it's still much cheaper and more easily available than helium, which it would be good to conserve for applications where there is no other substitute, such as welding aluminum or deep-sea diving.

An airship held aloft by a vacuum is pure fantasy. It's not science and not even science fiction. There is no material known or reasonable to expect that is at once strong enough to resist the atmospheric pressure of 32 pounds per square inch and light enough for an airship which must, in the end, be lighter overall than the amount of air it displaces. A vacuum bottle will keep your coffee warm, but it will never be lighter than air.

Dirigibles are great for lifting and moving very large, heavy loads, and for carrying them over land or water. Equipped with luxury accommodations they are great for moving people who are not in a hurry. (Sort of like cruise ships.) They are susceptible to bad weather, but with present-day weather satellites, that can be worked around. They are very efficient. The flammability of hydrogen is not a problem except for the public perception. The hysterical radio announcer who famously reported on the crash of the Hindenburg did the world a great disservice, and subsequent reporting which emphasized the hydrogen rather than the real culprit: the flammable fabric doping, sealed the demise of the dirigible. Nowadays there are bound to be non-flammable materials. Dirigibles won't replace airplanes, because airplanes are much faster, and people are so often in a hurry. But there are many applications where they are ideal. Maybe the aircraft reported on in the article will re-introduce this promising old technology to a world badly in need of more efficient transportation.

Dale is actually very forward-thinking in using dirigibles in his books. They are not science fiction and they are not fantasy, though Dale does use fantasy for their propulsion. There is no technological reason not to build lots of them right now (with, of course, conventional motors).



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Jockla
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Re: Science Fiction Becoming Science Fact

Unread postby Jockla » Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:42 pm

Hmm, enclosing vacuum?
How about an aerogel made in vacuum, or buckyballs perhaps?



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Re: Science Fiction Becoming Science Fact

Unread postby Adam » Fri Sep 26, 2014 1:09 am

I i had an idea for propulsion on air ships. You know those fans that move air with out blades? What if you made the skin of the air ship like that? Use aluminum or grapheen when we finally get that worked out. Then the entire exterior of the air ship would be the drive system. If you could make it powerful enough, with an aerodynamic shape it could probably hit some amazing speeds for an air ship.




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