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Eve Benson Discussion-spoiler alert in effect

The trilogy, based in the Demonverse.
RyanM
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Re: Eve Benson Discussion-spoiler alert in effect

Unread postby RyanM » Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:51 am

This series is actually one of my favorites, due to two scenes in the 3rd book:
1) The scene where she's in Edom's house finally coming to the realization that she has the whole of eternity in front of her and trying to come to terms with what that means. What is she going to do with her life? What kind and with whom is she going to build lasting relationships? Hobbies? Many people never experience that kind of introspection.

2) The following scene where Eve and Ginger are having the first meeting with the the Vampire trainees -- Both Even and Ginger lay it all out on the table: the good, the bad, and the ugly. I think it's not just for the Human trainees, but for also Eve and Ginger to fully admit their state of being to themselves. It's a bit of catharsis, especially for Ginger.

Something else I liked is how she actually got her ass thoroughly kicked by Maggie. One of the problems with Urban Fantasy is the protagonists with internalized power tend to become too powerful. And by the end of the series, that's pretty much the case, but I'm guessing there's a plan in place to deal with that since she's pretty Keely-verse's version of Tiera and Gwen. A good ass whooping now and again can force the character to look before they leap.

I think the reason she's so good is how the demons taught her meditation that tapped into a bit of demon magic, that much is told to us explicitly and directly. But, I think that caused Eve to brainwash herself. At the very beginning where she tells herself she won't lose control, she actually inserts a magic reinforced post-hypnotic suggestion that won't allow her to fail. Since the power of a Vampire is all mental, not directly age related, she creates a shortcut. She accidentally forces the mind to accept ideas she shouldn't be able to grasp for a few hundred years.

Some things I would have liked to have seen:
1) I wish she could have reunited with the Human girl from the beginning. I think there could be a true friendship there if allowed to bloom.
2) A few more Maggie-like beat downs. I think the scene where she fought with The Lover should have left her with more than covered in goo, perhaps a missing limb or even another Vampire getting hurt. Something more to show she's not invincible and Greater Demons are no joke.
3) Ginger reuniting with her parents. It obviously went well, or at least it didn't go poorly, but were they anti-Vampire? Pro-Vampire? Apathetic? Were they angry that Ginger was stolen from them or did the joy of having her back overshadow any anger or fear? Did Bey or Edom offer to make some sort of recompense? Will she continue to visit them on a regular basis?

Questions and what I expect from the future:
-If the bit about her brainwashing herself is true, what happens if it's removed? Will she still be a bad ass?
-Troy will choose Eve to be his maker. Does this means Eve will have to be fully emancipated from Edom? What does that mean?
-Bey will take a vacation. I get the feeling he's weary of being feared and known only for bringing death. I think he not only wants a rest, but he wants to be more of a guiding hand than final discipline.
-Eve killing and returning Gene to life to break the slave link.
-The Cleric thrusting Eve and Keely into something exceedingly dangerous -- perhaps finally visiting another world were their magic can't be used as an easy out? Gwen's world? Our world?
-Eve and Ginger's training program creates a new class of vampire that neuters the power of the Council. A Vampire Civil War?
-Openly creating a lot of satellite embassy's that lack a Node for travel (unless Zack can create a Node). The natural topic will be reconciling Vampire Law with Human Law. How do Human's enforce the law with beings they can't hope to fight?
-Since Vampires, Mages, Shifters, and Lesser Demons are out, perhaps some of the others will follow suit.



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Re: Eve Benson Discussion-spoiler alert in effect

Unread postby willallen » Tue Feb 10, 2015 6:52 pm

Dang, Ryan, you've put a lot of thought into this. I completely agree with the overpowered characters becoming less interesting. See Superman v. Batman. Batman is always more interesting in my opinion because he has to work harder. Having Eve bumping into the Greater Demon ranks means she's going to be living by her wits for quite some time. Sure, she can take down Fram- but I have a sneaking suspicion he willingly let it happen. And the Ferryman, she got in a lucky punch or twelve. As for Ginger reunion, I was hoping to read that as well. Maybe next time.

And Bey is still one of my all-time favorite characters. I just hope Dale doesn't give in to temptation and write a Bey book. That one might be awesome but I would take some of the mystery away from our favorite vampire executioner.



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Re: Eve Benson Discussion-spoiler alert in effect

Unread postby David » Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:04 pm

I got the impression she got strong enough to play in the demon ranks.

Bey, and the very old would still be a challenge, but mostly not more than a handful.

But as far as greater demons she IS batman, on an equal footing, but not at the high range of their abilities.

She doesn't need more Maggie type beat downs, one was enough to say she wasn't all powerful. It gets the idea across in a subtle way.

I'd love to see more Eve sometime in the future when he is ready to write it. As far as ideas for that I could think of plenty, but I'll probably thoroughly enjoy what Dale comes up with, which won't be anything I thought of.

Although one cool idea I had in regard to ginger, shape change her up about ten years... Just a thought. It should be possible.

Still, the mental picture of a cute fourteen year old kicking ass against twenty vampires with Bey line sped is pretty entertaining.



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Re: Eve Benson Discussion-spoiler alert in effect

Unread postby David » Wed Feb 11, 2015 7:47 am

Enslaving / in-roads

If she could do either of those things and did, it wouldn't be very hidden. She would have to dodge attacks constantly. Errr, more constantly.

The psychopath power is cool, but I think mostly for the pain/anger/thirst part. Is she still slower then Bey without the pain holding her back anymore?



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Ronald Dukarski
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Re: Eve Benson Discussion-spoiler alert in effect

Unread postby Ronald Dukarski » Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:29 am

Vampires do enslave people though they call it enthralling, I think. I'm not sure it's exactly the same, sort of mind control suggestion. It may not be lasting, but kind of the same thing, just shorter duration so far. E.g. sex slaves.

And now that I think about it, Eve could hear demons approaching on the lines. She thought it was noisy, wasteful. It reminded me of the way Zack could see the wasteful ways some demons entered the lines. I think Eve can "hear" the lines and daemons can "see" the lines. The Bey super speed may be a method of "walking" the lines for a hyper-vampire.



Love isn't blind-it's retarded. Charley Harper

In life, being dead, kind of means you lost. Tor

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RyanM
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Re: Eve Benson Discussion-spoiler alert in effect

Unread postby RyanM » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:23 am

I think Eve has the potential to be a lot more powerful than most of the demons and I'm under the impression Keely, Darla, and Zack made her that way on purpose -- they want an assassin. They need to take out Tarsus and even a strike force of demons would find that difficult; I don't think that even Keely could enslave him due to his age, knowledge, and raw power.

Eve can simply tie in more life links to fuel her abilities. At the end of the series we know she has at least 14 links with 5 of those fueling her magic. It's not a large leap of deductive reasoning to assume she's going to tie in more links to power her passive abilities: reduce the pain of speed and therefore her upper limit of speed, increase her strength, reinforce her natural toughness and healing. If she could heal her limbs with 8 links in a couple of weeks while at the same time maintaining her day walking, telepathy, etc, what could she do if she tied in 8-10+ links directly into healing?

So then the question become:
Does she have an upper limit to how many links she can make?
What are the side effects, if any, for creating and maintaining so many links?
How does she maintain her humanity if only the angels Gregor and Michael can deal with her -- power corrupting and all that?
At some point does she ascend to another state of being?



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Re: Eve Benson Discussion-spoiler alert in effect

Unread postby David » Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:42 am

They don't have to, they draw energy directly from the universe.

Which is kind of interesting, at the end there Eve modified her mind to see reality as it really is. Could she do it the way they do now?

I would guess they may be able to do it, or at least some of them, like Zack can use the same magic as the vampires to move quickly. Meh, speculation, so I'm probably wrong.




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